Kevin Smith

COMMUNITIES OF CARE
KEVIN SMITH
TABLE OF CONTENTS
Interviewee: Kevin Smith
Interviewer: Michael Rembis
Transcribers: AI ; Michael Rembis
Interview Location: Western New York Independent Living, 3108 Main St, Buffalo, NY
Interview Date: November 14, 2024
Interview ID: R5T9-V2B8

Unit 01        00:00:00 - 00:05:30
Introductions and Kevin’s childhood

Kevin explains that even as a young boy he experienced the effects of anxiety and depression. He notes that his parents were young and may not have had the knowledge or experience needed to help him. He turned to street drugs as a form of self-soothing. He began a cycle of hospitalization and incarceration. But this was not a community of care according to him.

Unit 02        00:05:31 - 00:16:12
The mental health system and peer support

Kevin considers the clinicians who came into his life a type of community of care but says that be becoming involved with peer support saved his life. Mental Health Peer Connection was a turning point in his life.

Unit 03        00:16:13 - 00:24:26
Family, mental health, and working for Peer Connection

Kevin reflects briefly on his early encounters with incarceration and counseling. He says more about his family and mental health and being hired to work with the Peer Connection Group at Western New York Independent Living.

Unit 04        00:24:27 - 00:33:43
Family, fishing, and the farm bus

Kevin discusses his fishing ministry and explains that fishing is one of his “wellness tools.” He says more about his relationship with his dad and the rest of his family. He lived partially with his grandmother when he was a teenager. She made him work on a nearby farm.

Unit 05        00:33:44 - 00:46:56
Obstacles to community and care

Kevin discusses the mental health effects of living in a time of political turmoil and scarce resources. He talks about things that he would like to see changed or improved. And offers a final message to folks experiencing mental troubles or distress.

00:46:57 – Brief closing remarks, End of interview

COMMUNITIES OF CARE
KEVIN SMITH
STORY DIGESTS, CHANGES ACCEPTED
Interviewee: Kevin Smith
Interviewer: Michael Rembis
Transcription: AI ; Michael Rembis ; Chase Perkins
Interview Location: Western New York Independent Living, 3108 Main St, Buffalo, NY
Interview Date: November 14, 2024
Interview ID: R5T9-V2B8

Unit 01                                                                                  00:00:00 - 00:05:30
Introductions and Kevin’s childhood

Story 1-a:  Communities of care play a major role
My name is Kevin Smith, and I am the director of Mental Health Peer Connection, a part of the Western New York Independent Living's family of seven agencies. I've been the director for about three and a half years now. And communities of care has a major role in why I sit here as the director. 

Story 1-b: Receiving a diagnosis
I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression as an adult. I've suffered from anxiety and depression as far back as my early childhood, and my parents didn't know enough about mental health or how to access care, so I struggle. I'm 54.  My parents had me when they were very young, my mom is 16 years older than me and my dad is 18 years older than me. So, we kind of grew up together.

Story 1-c: What it felt like as a child
I can remember me and my two brothers sharing a bedroom in the Jefferson projects on the East Side, my mom would lay us down for bed at night after our showers and dinner and get us up for school in the morning. But I would lay there late at night, my mind would not shut down.  Like sitting in a chair and feeling you're running a marathon and never getting up. I would have these high ups and low lows.  I didn't have any understanding of it, and because my parents were so young and the lack of resources in the community, I never was treated.

Story 1-d: Self-medication and incarceration
Fast forward to high school and, I started self-medicating, and that quickly escalated from marijuana to cocaine. Drugging to mask what I was feeling and to slow my mind down. It seemed like it was helping, but my life just spiraled out of control. It started the long journey in and out of institutions, whether hospital or incarceration.  And even though it was a rough journey, it was my means of being introduced to the mental health system, the beginning of my journey. It definitely wasn't a community of care. There was just so much trauma involved and lack of empathy. But it introduced me to a new way of thinking because like I said, up until then, I had never been diagnosed.  Something really small would bother me to the point where I'm in tears and don't understand why.

Unit 02                                                                                  00:05:31 - 00:16:12
The mental health system and peer support

Story 2-a: Medication was not the best option for me
So I was introduced to the mental health system. I went from one counselor to the next. It was helpful because that was the first time I had a name for what I was feeling.  That kind of put me on the road to understanding what was going on in my life and why I felt the way I felt.  I had a lot of ups and downs, medication just didn't seem like it was the best option for me.

Story 2-b: Discovering peer support
I know that part of my community of care now is early intervention with the clinicians who came into my life, in addition to the peer support that I attribute to saving my life. Peers literally was the turning point where I felt not only do I understand what's going on, but there's hope-- I don't have to live like this and be fearful of people judging me.  You know, the stigma and negative stuff that comes along with being someone living every day with mental health.                 

Story 2-c: Counseling made me feel like somebody was trying to fix me
By no means do I want to sound as if peer support is the only answer, because early clinical interaction was also really instrumental in getting me where I am today. I remember after being institutionalized and they told me, you got to get some counseling, most of the counseling I felt like I was broken and somebody was trying to fix me. I dreaded being what I call today voluntold-- that I had to get back into counseling to address my mental health and my depression.

Story 2-d: My dad recommended Peer Connection
And I was fortunate, I call it divine intervention. My dad, who also struggled with mental health and addiction, could offer me some good advice and help me.  He used to do a lot of moving for nuns in the church, and somehow he had met the director at Western New York Independent Living's Mental Health Peer Connection.  He was like, listen, there's this place, I don't know if it's going to work for you, but it's called Peer Connection, go there. And  I'm like, Okay, I'm going to go there. Nothing's going to be any different than my experiences with mental health treatment in the past. I didn't have a clue what a Peer was.  In my mind, I thought I was going to another clinical organization and they were going to do some assessments, give me some medication that gave me all kind of side effects that I didn't really like as a young man. 

Story 2-e: My first meeting with a peer support specialist
So, I showed up and they assigned me a peer who became a longtime friend of mine. I'll never forget this guy. We were sitting in a room and he says to me, So what do you want to work on?   Nobody had ever asked me what I wanted to work on, I was so shocked I couldn't really even answer. I said to him, You're the counselor, you tell me what we're supposed to work on. And he was like, No, that's not how it works.  And he started describing peer support. He told me, I'm here to help you. You figure out what you want to work on to get to a place of wellness. And I'll walk with you on that journey. But you're in the driver's seat. If I just tell you what you need to be doing, you don't really have any skin in the game. How much is that going to mean to you?

Story 2-f: Living with distress was like a badge of honor
That was just so new to me.  Here is a person giving me the opportunity to work on what I feel I need. That conversation sparked something in me. It exposed me to a whole new world where people didn't hide their mental health issues or what they were going through and how they feel. I walked into a place where it was almost like a badge of honor, man. And I'm like, Wait a minute, I've been living my life with the shame, the guilt, not wanting people to know the stuff I'm going through when I'm stuck in my own head. These have been my dark, deep secrets. And here is a place where not only people are celebrated for it, but they're giving that stuff to other people. So that was probably one of the most powerful moments in my life. And it was defining for me. 

Unit 03                                                                                  00:16:13 - 00:24:27
Family, mental health, and working for Peer Connection

Story 3-a:  Experiences with counseling and mental health before Peer Connection
Once I started self-medicating, my life just totally spiraled out of control.  The 1990s is when my addiction led me to being incarcerated. And then it just went from incarceration to a hospital.  And once I was part of the system, I was introduced to a counselor. It was clear I had things I needed to address but never did because in my household, nobody talked about mental health. I can remember feeling down or mind racing, and to my parents it was either sit down or pick yourself up. It was dismissive because that wasn't something that they understood. 

Story 3-b: I started working for Peer Connection in community outreach
2003 is when I first walked through the doors of Western New York Independent Living Center and met my first peer support specialist.  Then one day the director was telling me about individuals who were chronically homeless, mental health, who they wanted to engage to bring in for services, and asked me if I was interested in a job just talking about my life. I'm like, wait a minute--a job? Like you're going to give me money? And she was like, Yeah, we're going to pay you to go out into the community and engage individuals who are chronically homeless, probably mental health, some substance use. And just tell them about our services.  So, I said sure. And I didn’t have a clue what I was going to do. 

Story 3: c I would just sit down and have conversations with people
[Western New York Independent Living] hired me. I started going to literally every soup kitchen in the city of Buffalo, I would just sit down and we would just have conversations over food. And I would tell them about my life and, you know, just general conversation. And for some reason, people talked to me and I was pretty good at it. Linking individuals who were chronically homeless and getting them to come into the agency to work on things they needed to do in their own lives. So that was the beginning for me, that first job.          

Unit 04                                                                                  00:24:27 - 00:33:44
Fishing, Family, and Farm Work 

Story 4-a: Fishing is one of my wellness tools
Fishing is one of my wellness tools. Even when my dad struggled with addiction, he would take me down to the lake and we would cast a line, and that turned out to be so valuable in my life.  I love the water, it's my happy space. I get with my group of guys and we go down to the lake and fish and we'll go to Pennsylvania or Jamestown or Rochester or Thousand Islands.  It puts me in a really good, peaceful place and allows me to get out of my own head when I might not be in the best space.  Just being around people who were positive role models in their community.  Not only are they great fishing partners, these are guys that are helping some of the most vulnerable people in the communities. I've been a part of this fishing ministry for about seven years now, and the guys are trying to get me to come to church, I've been once, so I'm still a work in progress.

Story 4-b: Rebuilding strong relationships with family
I have a real strong relationship with a lot of my family members now, whereas before a lot of them didn't want to be around me. Not only did they not understand my mental health, I made things worse when I started self-medicating. But I was able to fix those relationships. I value early relationships I was able to hang on to even though my life was in turmoil. 

Story 4-c: Living with grandmother and working on the farm
Because of what was going on in my household, me and my brothers split up amongst the family, and I stayed with my grandmother. To this day, I consider her one of the hardest working individuals I've ever met in my life. I was, like, 15, 16, and she would make me get up early in the morning, and make me catch the farm van to William and Walnut. I remember the first time she packed up my lunch real nice, and I left it on the van, I was the only kid. So, I'm out there in the sun, and lunch time they call our break. I go back to the van and somebody stole my lunch.  Nothing like being out in the field in 85 degrees and on my hands and knees picking cherry tomatoes or cucumbers, five or six hours and come home with 40 bucks.  Even though I hated it, it allowed me to relax my mind.  I look back at that stuff now, and it taught me the value of hard work.  Even though so much stuff went wrong in my life.  

 Story 4-d: It is important to develop anchors in communities
But getting that work experience-- even now, doing the work that I'm doing, we work with so many other organizations. Like I talked about my fishing buddies. So, I think it's important to develop those anchors and not just the community that you live in, but the community at large as well. So, yeah, a lot of people played a really important role in my life when I think of communities of care.     

Unit 05                                                                                  00:33:44 - 00:47:33
Obstacles to community and care

Story 5-a: As a society, it feels like we are going backwards
No matter how much you do, there's always more that can be done. And we're living in a time where people's needs are constantly amplifying, more and more, whether it's housing or whatever.  When you think about where we are as a country, politics creates stress for people and it's affecting everybody. So even though we have a fairly decent sized staff, people come through our doors where it's hard to give everybody all of the attention that they need.  I first walked through these doors 20+ years ago, there didn't seem to be so many things affecting people. So needing those resources and help, whether it's mental health or substance use-- it seems infinite. And as a society, it feels like we're going backwards instead of truly trying to have a healthy, inclusive society. That's probably the biggest barrier.      

Story 5-b: We are constantly searching for more grants, more funding
We've been fortunate to live in a county, and a state, where the funding has been pretty constant. I wish that it kept pace with inflation, but we're constantly searching for more grants, more funding. More often than not, we have these stop-gap or quick-fix solutions, they're done after two or three or five years. So you're always looking for that next thing to continue providing the services and helping people because the need isn't going anywhere—it’s growing.         

Story 5-c: We need better communication among providers
I wish that there was a way that we can communicate more with each other instead of these siloed approaches, but at the same time respect people's individual liberty and rights.  Because when I think about my own personal experience looking for services, you find yourself explaining over and over what brought you where you are today. You can't fault people because they come to you for help. You can't fault them when they go to two or three places.  So we just got to figure out a better way to not just communicate amongst the providers, but for the state, the county, to put the necessary funding behind people's wellness and mental health and substance use or whatever’s causing them angst in their life. So people who choose this life of helping can support themselves and their families, because you’re definitely not going to get rich in this profession, but you need people who are empathetic, you need people who are caring. So communication and funding, those are two things that I would change if I had a magic wand.     

Story 5-d: I value the connections I made with other people      
I would be dishonest if I didn't say there were times in my life where the hopelessness felt overbearing, that I just didn't know what was going to happen next. But even in my lowest I managed to keep it simple. Every day I woke up was another opportunity for something to change in my life. And I think back to all the people who were instrumental and planting these seeds when I was still caught up in my story and they didn't hold a whole lot of weight then. But everybody I encountered, I was able to take something from each of them. 

Story 5-e: Hold onto those seeds
As a director of an agency that works with individuals with mental health and substance use disorders, a lot of times you want instant gratification if you're the person dealing with it or you're the person trying to walk with somebody along their road to recovery: I try to convey to my staff--Keep the seeds. We take so many seeds from so many different places. So, if there's anything in your life that you can find just a pinprick of light, hold on to that. Because that pinprick may be the seed that grows to take you over the top to put you in a new place next year or five years or ten years.  

Story 5-f: Keep planting seeds
And I tell my staff, listen, people come to us and they need help. You always have to remember that first. Take “you” out of the scenario. Keep planting seeds. Everybody that come in, you keep planting seeds. You might not see them grow, because all of the people that helped me along my life, they gave me something that stuck with me, that allowed me to be here. It might not grow tomorrow, it might not grow next week. But it can grow and it does grow. So, it's like Johnny Appleseed:  keep planting those seeds even though you might not be there to watch them grow.                 

COMMUNITIES OF CARE
KEVIN SMITH
UNIT DIGESTS, CHANGES ACCEPTED 
Interviewee: Kevin Smith
Interviewer: Michael Rembis
Transcription: AI ; Michael Rembis ; Chase Perkins
Interview Location: Western New York Independent Living, 3108 Main St, Buffalo, NY
Interview Date: November 14, 2024
Interview ID: R5T9-V2B8
 

Unit 01                                                                                  00:00:00 - 00:05:30
Introductions and Kevin’s childhood
00:00:46          (Kevin Smith)
My name is Kevin Smith, and I am the director of Mental Health Peer Connection, which is a part of the Western New York Independent Living's family of agencies. I'm the director of one of the agencies within the family of seven, and I've been the director for about three and a half years now. And communities of care has been a major role in where I am today and why I sit here as the director of Mental Health Peer Connection.

00:01:21          (Kevin Smith) 
I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression as an adult. And looking back, I've definitely suffered from anxiety and depression as far back as I can think of in my early childhood. And unfortunately, at that time, my parents didn't know enough about mental health or how to access what I consider that family of care today. So, I struggle, you know? I'm 54. My parents had me when they were very young, actually, me and my brothers. My mom is 16 years older than me, and my dad is 18 years older than me. So, when I say we kind of grew up together, you know what I mean?

00:02:26          (Kevin Smith) 
I stress we [my parents and I] grew up together and I can remember distinctively now as I look back, me and my two brothers sharing a bedroom in the Jefferson projects on the East Side, and my mom would lay us down for bed at night and after our showers and dinner and get us up for school in the morning. But I would lay there late at night and my mind would just race. My mind just would not shut down. Now I kind of associate it with sitting in a chair and feeling like you're running a marathon and never getting up. And then I would have these high ups and these, you know, I mean, low lows. And again, you know, I didn't have any understanding of it. And unfortunately, because my parents were so young and the lack of resources in the community, I never was treated.

00:03:28          (Kevin Smith) 
So, fast forward to high school and, I started self-medicating, like a lot of the people that I knew and that quickly escalated from marijuana to cocaine.  And at the time, when I first started smoking the marijuana or whatever, and drugging to mask what I was feeling and kind of trying to slow my mind down. I mean, it seemed like it was helping, but my life just spiraled out of control. So, it started, I guess, the long journey in and out of institutions, whether it was the hospital or incarceration.

00:04:35          (Kevin Smith) 
And I think back now and I mean, even though it was a rough journey, it [hospitalization and incarceration] was my means of being introduced to the mental health system. And even though that was the beginning of my journey, it definitely wasn't a community of care. There was just so much trauma involved and the lack of empathy. You know, I mean, now that I'm looking back, but it definitely introduced me to a new way of thinking because like I said, up until then, I had never been diagnosed. Something really small would bother me so much to the point where I'm in tears and don't understand why.


Unit 02                                                                                  00:05:31 - 00:16:12
The mental health system and peer support
00:05:31          (Kevin Smith) 
So, I was introduced to the mental health system. And I literally just went from one counselor to the next. And I think it was helpful because that was the first time I had a name for what it was I was feeling. But it also allowed me to talk about what we just didn't talk about. So that kind of put me on the road to understanding what was going on in my life and why I felt the way I felt. I mean, I had a lot of ups and downs, medication, at the time, just didn't seem like it was the best option for me.

00:06:38          (Kevin Smith) 
I know that part of my community of care now is that early intervention with the clinicians who came into my life, in addition to the peer support that I literally attribute to saving my life. Peers literally was the turning point in my life where I felt like, okay, not only do I understand what's going on in my life and why I feel the way I feel. But there's hope. I mean, I don't have to live like this. And be fearful of people judging me or, you know, I mean, the stigma and just all that negative stuff that comes along with being someone who's living every day with mental health.                 

00:08:24          (Kevin Smith)
By no means do I want to sound as if I think peer support is the only answer for individuals because like I said, I acknowledge that that early clinical interaction in my life was also really, really instrumental in getting me where I am today. And I remember after being institutionalized or being released and they told me, you got to get some counseling. But most of the counseling I had, I felt like I was broken and somebody was trying to fix me. And I dreaded being what I call today voluntold that I had to get back into counseling to address my mental health and my depression.

00:09:36          (Kevin Smith)
And I was fortunate enough. I call it divine intervention. My dad at the time, who also struggled with mental health and addiction was in a place where he could offer me some good advice and help me. So, I went and talked to my dad, and he used to do a lot of moving for nuns in the church. And somehow, he had met the director before me, here at Western New York Independent Living's mental health peer connection.  So, he was like, listen, there's this place. I mean, I don't know if it's going to work for you, but it's called peer connection. It's on Main [street], go there.

00:11:06          (Kevin Smith)
And in my mind I'm like, okay, I'm going to go there [to Western New York Independent Living]. Nothing's going to be any different than my experiences with mental health treatment in the past. So, I didn't expect much. And at that time, I didn't have a clue what a peer was. Yeah. I mean, in my mind, I thought I was going to another clinical organization and they were going to do some assessments. And, you know, give me some medication that gave me all kind of side effects that I didn't really like as a young man.

00:11:46          (Kevin Smith)
So, I showed up [to Western New York Independent Living] And they assigned me a peer who became a longtime friend of mine. I'll never forget this guy. We were sitting in a room And he says to me, so what do you want to work on? I still remember the feeling when he asked me that because up until that point, nobody had ever asked me what I wanted to work on. And even when I think back right then and there, I was so shocked I couldn't really even answer. I think I said to him, I don't know. You're the counselor. You tell me what we're supposed to work on. And he was like, no, that's not how it works.

00:12:59          (Kevin Smith)
And I'm like, well, what do you mean that's not how it [peer support] works? And he started describing peer support. And he told me basically, I'm here to help you. You figure out what it is you want to work on to get to where you need to be, a place of wellness. And I'll walk with you on that journey. But you're in the driver's seat. If I just tell you everything that I think you need and what you need to be doing, you don't really have any skin in the game. How much is that going to mean to you?

00:13:41          (Kevin Smith)
And that [peer support] was just so new to me. I was like, here is a person giving me the opportunity to work on what I feel that I need. Now I know in my mind I just met this guy. But that conversation sparked something in me, and I wanted more of that. So, I kept coming. I kept coming, and it exposed me to a whole new world. I walked into a place where people didn't hide their mental health issues or whatever titles that they were given based on things that they were going through and how they feel.

00:14:44          (Kevin Smith)
But I walked into a place [peer support] where it [mental health troubles or distress] was almost like a badge of honor, man. And I'm like, wait a minute, I've been living my life with the shame. The guilt and wanting to hide it and not wanting people to know. You know what I mean? All of the stuff that I'm going through when I'm stuck in my own head, and here is a place where not only people are celebrated for it, but they're giving that stuff to other people. And in my life, these have been my dark, deep secrets that I didn't want anybody to know about. So that was probably one of the most powerful moments in my life. And it was defining for me. It was defining for me.                 


Unit 03                                                                                  00:16:13 - 00:24:26
Family, mental health, and working for Peer Connection
00:16:40          (Kevin Smith)
Once I started self-medicating, my life just totally spiraled out of control. I was incarcerated to support my habit. And, you know, I mean, the mental health didn't go anywhere, once I was part of the system or the state, I was introduced to a counselor. And just through some of those conversations, it was clear that I had some things that I needed to address but never did because, like I said, in my household, nobody talked about mental health.

00:17:17          (Kevin Smith)
I can remember feeling down or mind racing and I mean, to my parents, it was either sit down or pick yourself up. It was dismissive because that wasn't something that they understood. Well, the 1990s is when my addiction led me to being incarcerated. And that was my first time institutionalized. And then it just went from there. From incarceration to a hospital. It just spiraled out of control from there for a long time. And then in 2003 is when I first walked through the doors of Western New York Independent Living Center and met my first peer support specialist.

00:19:16          (Kevin Smith)
And it was so weird because I came here [Western New York Independent Living] probably for about a year before receiving services. And then one day the director asked me, she was telling me about a position [to] engage [with] individuals who were chronically homeless, mental health, who they wanted to engage to bring in for services and asked me if I was interested in a job just talking about my life. I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute. A job? Like you're going to give me money? And she was like, yeah, we're going to pay you to go out into the community and engage individuals who are chronically homeless, probably mental health. There was some substance use. And just tell them about our services.  

00:20:11          (Kevin Smith)
So, I said sure. And I didn’t have a clue what I was going to do, and they [Western New York Independent Living] hired me. I started going to like literally every soup kitchen in the city of Buffalo, and I would just sit down and have a meal with folks, and we would just have conversations over food. And I would tell them about my life and we would just start, you know, I mean, just general conversation. And for some reason, people talked to me and we was pretty good at it. We was pretty good at linking individuals who were chronically homeless and getting them to come into the agency to work on a lot of the things that they needed to do in their own lives. So that was the beginning for me, that first job.          


Unit 04                                                                                  00:24:27 - 00:33:43
Family, fishing, and the farm bus
00:26:15          (Kevin Smith)
Fishing is one of my wellness tools. I had no idea it would be one of my wellness tools, because even when my dad struggled with addiction, I can remember him always taking me fishing. He would take me down to the lake and we would cast a line, and that stuck with me. That was one of the things that he introduced me to that later on in my life turned out to be so valuable, important in my life.

00:26:51          (Kevin Smith)
I love the water, it's my happy space. I get with my group of guys and we go down to the lake and fish and we'll go to Pennsylvania or Jamestown or Rochester or Thousand Islands. And it just puts me in a really good, peaceful place and allows me to get out of my own head when I might not be in the best space. Yeah, so it's everything in the community, even though I've been a part of this fishing ministry for about seven years now, and the guys are trying to get me to come to church, I've been once, so I'm still a work in progress.

00:27:34          (Kevin Smith)
But yeah, we fish and I bought my first boat, which was a 1972 StarCraft aluminum. I spent the summer renovating it. Just being around people who were, who are still, to this day, positive role models in their community. I mean, not only are they great fishing partners, these are guys that are contributing to their community and helping people who are some of the most vulnerable people in the communities.

00:28:26          (Kevin Smith)
I have a real strong relationship with a lot of my family members now, whereas before a lot of them didn't want to be around me, you know, I mean, not only did they not understand my mental health, I made things worse when I started self-medicating. So, it was like I made matters worse, but I was able to fix those relationships. And now I have strong relationships with my family. I value early relationships that I was able to hang on to even though my life was in turmoil. There were years that in my early childhood, because of what was going on in my household, me and my brothers kind of split up amongst the family, and I stayed with my grandmother.

00:30:05          (Kevin Smith)
Still to this day, I consider her [Kevin’s grandmother] one of the hardest working individuals I've ever met in my life. I was, like, 15, 16, and she would make me get up early in the morning, and she would make me catch the farm van. And I would go up to William and Walnut, I and she didn't even realize it at that time, even though I hated it, being out there and picking tomatoes or whatever it was I was picking for the day and it allowed me to relax my mind.

00:30:48          (Kevin Smith)
And I never had that conversation with her [about the farm work], of course, but I hated it. But I look back at that stuff now, and it taught me the value of hard work. Yeah, there was nothing like being out in the farm in the field in 85 degrees and down on my hands and knees picking cherry tomatoes or cucumbers and 5 or 6 hours and come home with 40 bucks.

00:31:27          (Kevin Smith)
But it [working as a day laborer on the farm] taught me the value of hard work. So, I have all of this stuff as reference, even though it was so much stuff that I felt like went wrong in my life. And, I don't know, it's just I can laugh at it now because I remember the first time she sent me and she packed up my lunch real nice, and I left it on the van, and I was the only kid. So, I'm out there in the sun, and this was the very first time out there in the sun. And lunch time they call our break. I go back to the van and somebody stole my lunch. That was not one of my communities. But that experience. Getting that work experience. And even now, doing the work that I'm doing. I mean, we work with so many other organizations. Like I talked about my fishing buddies.

00:33:05          (Kevin Smith)
There's other organizations within the community that we work with. And I mean, they're supportive, too, not just for me, but for so many other people in the community. So, I think it's important to develop those anchors and not just the community that you live in, but, you know, the community at large as well. So, yeah, a lot of people has played a really important role in my life when I think of communities of care.      


Unit 05                                                                                  00:33:44 - 00:46:56
Obstacles to community and care
00:34:09          (Kevin Smith)
I think from my role now, a lot of the barriers that we face and we have a decent sized staff, but no matter how much you do, there's always more that can be done. And we're living in a time where people's needs are just constantly amplifying. There's just more and more and more whether it's, housing or whatever it is.

00:34:57          (Kevin Smith)
But the downside is, when you think about where we are as a country, just politics. Politics creates stress for people. And it's affecting everybody. So even though we have a fairly decent sized staff, I think we could always use more because enough people come through our doors where it's hard to give everybody all of the attention that they need.  

00:35:27          (Kevin Smith)
I first walked through these doors 20 plus years ago, even though we provided a lot of services to folks, there didn't seem to be so many things affecting people. So, there's a limited amount of resources, but the need for people needing those resources and to help, whether it's mental health or substance use, it seems to be infinite. And sometimes as a society, it feels like we're going backwards instead of truly trying to meet the needs of everybody to have a healthy, inclusive society. That's probably the biggest barrier.                 

00:36:55          (Kevin Smith)
I think we've been fortunate enough to live in a county, and I mean a state, where the funding has been pretty constant. Of course, I wish that it kept pace with inflation or just living as a whole. But then we're constantly searching for more grants, more funding. And what happens more often than not is we have these stop gap or these quick fix solutions that [are] done after two years, or they're done after three years or five years or whatever. It's not constant. So, you're always looking for that next thing to continue providing the services and helping people because the need isn't going anywhere. It's growing.         

00:39:19          (Kevin Smith)
I wish that there was a way that we can communicate more with each other instead of a lot of these siloed approaches, but at the same time respect people's individual liberty. And their rights.

00:40:05          (Kevin Smith)
Because when I think about my own personal experience in going from one place to another and looking for services. A lot of times, you find yourself talking about your life or explaining to somebody what brought you where you are today over and over. And that was one of the things that kind of turned me away early on. You might go to 2 or 3 different places, which you can't fault people because people come to us, or I would imagine a lot of these other places, they come to you for help. They need help yesterday. So, you can't fault them when they go to 2 or 3 places. And, you hope that whatever it is that they're seeking to put them in a better place, somebody's going to come through fast. So sometimes I think we just got to figure out a better way to communicate and not just communicate amongst the providers that are providing these services, but for the state, the county or whoever, to really, really put people's wellness and mental health and substance use or whatever it is that's causing them angst in their life or elevated levels of mental health, not just talking about it, but put the necessary funding behind it. So people who choose this life of helping can support themselves and their families, because I think a lot of people choose to do something different because it's hard to support and sustain your own family, because you definitely not going to get rich in this profession, but you need people who are empathetic, you need people who are caring. And a lot of times it's choices. I mean, people make choices based on their own personal experiences and what they need to be doing for their own lives. So, communication and funding, those are two of the things that I would change if I had a magic wand.                

00:43:12          (Kevin Smith)
I would be dishonest if I didn't say there were times in my life where the hopelessness felt so overbearing that I just didn't know what was going to happen next. But even in my lowest, somehow I managed to keep it simple. And every day I woke up and my mind was another opportunity for something to change in my life, even though I didn't know what it was or if it was going to even happen. And I think back to all the people who were instrumental in my life and was planting these seeds when I was still caught up in my story and they didn't hold a whole lot of weight then. But everybody I encountered, I was able to take something from each one of them as I look back, because a lot of those things still stick with me today.

00:44:53          (Kevin Smith)
And as a director of an agency that worked with individuals with mental health and substance use disorders, I try to convey to my staff, because a lot of times you want instant gratification. Even if you're the person dealing with it or you're the person trying to walk with somebody as they go through or go walk along their road to recovery. Keep the seeds, I guess.

00:45:30          (Kevin Smith)
We take so many seeds from so many different places. It might not grow tomorrow, it might not grow next week. But it can grow and it does grow. So, if there's anything in your life that you can hold on to, or you can find just a pinprick of light, hold on to that. Because that pinprick may be the seed that grows to take you over the top to put you in a new place next year or five years or ten years. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is you have to find a way to keep hope.                 

00:46:11          (Kevin Smith)
And I tell my staff, listen, people come to us and they need help. So that's how you always have to remember that first. Take you out of the scenario. Keep planting seeds. You, everybody that come in, you keep planting seeds, you keep planting seeds. And you have to be okay with the fact that you might not be there to see them grow, because all of the people that helped me along my life, some of them I don't have any contact with anymore. But yet they gave me something that stuck with me that allowed me to be here. So, it's like Johnny Appleseed, keep planting those seeds even though you might not be there to watch them grow.                 

00:46:57 – Brief closing remarks, End of interview

COMMUNITIES OF CARE
ORAL HISTORY TRANSCRIPT
Interviewee: Kevin Smith
Interviewer: Michael Rembis
Transcribers: AI; Michael Rembis
Location of the interview: Western New York Independent Living, 3108 Main St, Buffalo, NY
Date of the interview: November 14, 2024

00:00:00          Michael Rembis
I am Michael Rembis. This is an oral history interview as part of the Communities of Care project. Today is November 14th, 2024. It's a Thursday. We're at the Western New York Independent Living at 3108 Main Street in Buffalo. And I'm here with Kevin. Kevin, if you want, you can introduce yourself. But you don't have to do that. We could launch right into you describing your community of care if you want to do that. Or we can talk about the mental health peer connections organization as well. So, you're welcome to begin in any way that you want to.

00:00:46          Kevin Smith
Okay, Like I said before we started recording today, my life is an open book. My name is Kevin Smith, and as Mike said, I am the director of Mental Health Peer Connection, which is a part of the Western New York Independent Living's family of agencies. I'm the director of one of the agencies within the family of seven, and I've been the director for about three and a half years now. And communities of care has been a major role in where I am today and why I sit here as the director of Mental Health Peer Connection.  [continued…]

00:01:21          (Kevin Smith)
I think it's important for me to share a little bit about my personal story. I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression as an adult. And looking back, I've definitely suffered from anxiety and depression as far back as I can think of in my early childhood. And unfortunately, at that time, my parents didn't know enough about mental health or how to access what I consider that family of care today. So, I struggle, you know? I mean, like I said, I can remember as a early childhood growing up on the east side of Buffalo. I'm 54. My parents had me when they were very young, actually, me and my brothers. My mom is 16 years older than me, and my dad is 18 years older than me. So, when I say we kind of grew up together, you know what I mean? That is not an understatement.  [continued…]

00:02:26          (Kevin Smith)
I stress we [my parents and I] grew up together and I can remember distinctively now as I look back, me and my two brothers sharing a bedroom in the Jefferson projects on the East Side, and my mom would lay us down for bed at night and after our showers and dinner and get us up for school in the morning. Well, that was the idea. But I would lay there late at night and my mind would just race. And of course I didn't understand what was going on, but it was just the anxiety. My mind just would not shut down. Now I kind of associate it with sitting in a chair and feeling like you're running a marathon and never getting up. So that was the story of my life as a young child. And then I would have these high ups and these, you know, I mean, low lows. And again, you know, I didn't have any understanding of it. And unfortunately, because my parents were so young and the lack of resources in the community, I never was treated.  [continued…]

00:03:28          (Kevin Smith)
So. Fast forward to high school and, … I started self-medicating, like a lot of the people that I knew and that quickly escalated from marijuana to cocaine, and you know what I mean? Then it was just my life was, like, way out of control. And at the time, when I first started smoking the marijuana or whatever, and drugging to mask what I was feeling and kind of trying to slow my mind down. I mean, it seemed like it was helping, but it literally … my life just spiraled out of control. So I, uh, it started, I guess, the long journey in and out of institutions, whether it was… the hospital or incarceration.  [continued…]

00:04:35          (Kevin Smith)
And I think back now and I mean, it's even though it was a rough journey, it [hospitalization and incarceration] was my means of being introduced to the mental health system. And even though that was the beginning of my journey, it definitely wasn't a community of care. There was just… so much trauma involved and the lack of empathy. You know, I mean, now that I'm looking back, but it definitely introduced me to a new way of thinking because like I said, up until then, I had never been diagnosed. I didn't know why my mind would race at night when I should be sleeping. I didn't know why. Something really small would bother me so much to the point where I'm in tears and don't understand why. [continued…]

00:05:31          (Kevin Smith)
So, I was introduced to… the mental health system. And I literally just went from one counselor to the next. And I think it was helpful because that was, like I said, the first time I had a name for what it was I was feeling. But it also allowed me to talk about what we just didn't talk about. So, no, not in my household. Nobody in my [family]. And I have a huge family. And it's just that we did not talk about mental health, and how to treat mental health… I think back and I had an uncle who probably also had mental health that was never addressed. So that kind of put me on the road to understanding what was going on in my life and why I felt the way I felt. And it just kind of continued from there. I mean, I had a lot of ups and downs, medication, at the time, just didn't seem like it was the best option for me, even though… [continued…]

00:06:38          (Kevin Smith)
I know that part of my community of care now is that early intervention with the clinicians who came into my life, in addition to the peer support that I literally attribute to saving my life. And, you know, I mean, I might sound a little biased here because today I'm the director of Mental Health Peer Connection. But Peers literally was the turning point in my life where I felt like, okay, not only do I understand what's going on in my life and why I feel the way I feel. But there's hope. I mean, I don't have to live like this. And be fearful of people judging me or, you know, I mean, the stigma and just all that negative stuff that comes along with being someone who's living every day with mental health.                

00:07:38          Michael Rembis
Thank you so much for sharing that. And there's so many things I want to follow up with. …One of the other people that we interviewed, MJ, spoke about the Mental Health Peer Connection as life changing as well. And I'm wondering if you can elaborate, either from the perspective of a director or someone who has lived experience …if you can maybe just say a bit more about how it's life altering and maybe how it's different than more clinical approaches, for example, or what you found unique about it.                 

00:08:24          Kevin Smith
Certainly, like I said…By no means do I want to sound as if I think peer support is the only answer for individuals because like I said, I acknowledge that that early clinical interaction in my life was also really, really instrumental in getting me where I am today. And I remember after being institutionalized or being released and they told me, you got to get some counseling, you have to get some counseling. And I had been in and out of counseling a lot up until that point. But most of the counseling I had, and this is just my personal experience, I felt like I was broken and somebody was trying to fix me. That was my personal experience. And I dreaded being what I call today voluntold that I had to get back into counseling to address my mental health and my depression.   [continued…]

00:09:36          (Kevin Smith)
And I was fortunate enough. I call it divine intervention. My dad at the time, who also struggled with mental health and addiction, alcoholism… that was mostly in my early childhood… my dad, his struggles, because he found recovery late in life, when I was an adult and at this time, he was in a place where he could offer me some good advice and help me. So, I went and talked to my dad, and he was, he used to do a lot of moving for nuns in the church, and I don't remember the church, but I know they would call him up, and he would deliver furniture for these nuns. You know what I mean? To less fortunate people who didn't have much. And they would just look out for people, and he would come with a truck and he would move stuff for them. And somehow, he had met the director before me, here at Western New York Independent Living's mental health peer connection. So, I think there was a consumer of something that was associated with the agency. And he delivered some furniture to this person's house, and he met the director before me. So, he said, listen, because I told him I got to get into counseling. So, he was like, listen, there's this place. I mean, I don't know if it's going to work for you, but it's called peer connection. It's on Main [street], go there. [continued…]

00:11:06          (Kevin Smith)
And in my mind I'm like, okay, I'm going to go there [to Western New York Independent Living]. Nothing's going to be any different than my experiences with mental health treatment in the past. So, I didn't expect much. And at that time, I didn't have a clue what a peer was. Yeah. I mean, in my mind, I thought I was going to another clinical organization and they were going to do some assessments. And, you know, I mean, give me some medication that gave me all kind of side effects that I didn't really like as a young man. And, you know, I didn't want to… be, uh, be on quite frankly. [continued…]

00:11:46          (Kevin Smith)
So, I showed up [to Western New York Independent Living] and there was at this time there was a really, really short intake. And they assigned me a peer who became a longtime friend of mine, Blaine Hodge. I'll never forget this guy. We were sitting in a room, and, I mean, he's no further from me than you are right now, Mike. Just a couple of feet. And I'm waiting for all the questions and the assessments to start. And he says to me, so what do you want to work on? And it's, I still remember the feeling when he asked me that because up until that point, nobody had ever asked me what I wanted to work on. And even when I think back right then and there, I was so shocked I couldn't really even answer. And, and I think, I think I said to him, I don't know. You're the counselor. You tell me what we're supposed to work on. And he was like, no, that's not how it works:   [continued…]

00:12:59          (Kevin Smith)
And I'm like, well, what do you mean that's not how it [peer support] works? And he started describing peer support. And he… told me basically… and these aren't his exact words. I'm paraphrasing. I'm here to help you. You figure out what it is you want to work on to get to where you need to be, a place of wellness. And I'll walk with you on that journey. But you're in the driver's seat. If I just tell you everything that I think you need and what you need to be doing, you don't really have any skin in the game. How much is that going to mean to you? And it was, you know, I'm paraphrasing, but that's basically the gist of it.  [continued…]

00:13:41          (Kevin Smith)
And that [peer support] was just so new to me. I was like, here is a person giving me the opportunity to work on what I feel that I need. Now I know in my mind I just met this guy. So, in my head I'm starting to think about all the stuff that I've kept bottled up inside that I really never shared with anybody. And so I knew, but I wasn't going to tell him that on day one. But that conversation sparked something in me, and I wanted more of that. Even though I didn't know what it was, I didn't fully understand what it was, but I needed more of that. So, I kept coming. I kept coming, and it exposed me to a whole new world. I walked into a place where people didn't hide their mental health issues or whatever titles that they were given based on things that they were going through and how they feel. [continued…]

00:14:44          (Kevin Smith)
But I walked into a place [peer support] where it [mental health troubles or distress] was almost like a badge of honor, man. And I'm like, wait a minute, I've been living my life with the shame. The guilt and wanting to hide it and not wanting people to know. You know what I mean? All of the stuff that I'm going through when I'm stuck in my own head, and here is a place where not only people are celebrated for it, but they're giving that stuff to other people. Man, they're getting paid to help other people based on the stuff that they went through. And in my life, these have been my dark, deep secrets that I didn't want anybody to know about. So that was probably one of the most powerful moments in my life. And it was defining for me. It was defining for me.                

00:15:31          Michael Rembis
Q:  Oh, that's amazing. Thanks for sharing. I could see how that would be really powerful… I mean, you feeling seen and heard and feeling like you're in control and then finding all these folks who also had experiences, and you were able to share that experience with them? And I can imagine that's really powerful. How long ago was… how old were you? KS: That was, uh, 2003. So that was 21 years.  Q:  21 years ago. KS:  That was 21 years ago. And like I said, I came and I kept coming, and I literally walked in these doors as a broken and needing help. And today I run the agency [Mental Health Peer Connection].                

00:16:13          Michael Rembis
That's amazing. It's an amazing success story. I was thinking when you were talking about a lot of stuff, it's all so interesting… When did you first have your first encounters with the health care system? Were you a teenager or was it after you were an adult?                

00:16:40          Kevin Smith
I was definitely an adult. Once I started self-medicating, my life just totally spiraled out of control. I was incarcerated, uh, to support my habit. And, you know, I mean, the mental health didn't go anywhere, so it's like, hey, you know, once I was part of the system or the state, I was introduced to a counselor. And just through some of those conversations, it was clear that I had some things that I needed to address but never did because, like I said, in my household, nobody talked about mental health. It was just we didn't, my parents, we didn't talk about it.    [continued…]

00:17:17          (Kevin Smith)
Nobody in my family… I had never heard of [mental health]. I mean, I don't think I ever heard them ever say the words mental health. I can remember feeling down or mind racing and I mean, to my parents, it was either sit down or… Pick yourself up. And I mean, what's going on. But they, it was dismissive. It was dismissive because that wasn't something that they understood. And it's totally ironic because like I said, my parents were really, really young. And my dad struggled. Early in his life with his own mental health and addiction. And here it is all these years later. He just retired as a licensed clinical social worker from [name redacted]. So, it's like it's totally weird on my life, it's like it's a total 360, man. It's like, oh my God, people tell me I should write a book.

00:18:09          Michael Rembis
Q:  You should. I mean, these are really powerful storiese. KS:  He [Kevin’s father] really made a big difference in my life. He… really… became instrumental in my life, as an adult. And, you know, I mean, the mental health and that sort of thing. But early on, like I said, a lot of those memories were probably memories that for a long time I wished I could forget.

00:18:38          Michael Rembis
Q:  So that was probably like the 1990s. KS:  Yeah. 20. Yeah. Well, the 1990s is when … my addiction led me to being incarcerated. And that was my first time institutionalized. And then it just went from there. From incarceration to a hospital. It just spiraled out of control from there for a long time. Yeah. I mean, for a long time. And then, like I said in 2003 is when I first walked through the doors of Western New York Independent Living Center and met my first peer support specialist.  [continued…]

00:19:16          (Kevin Smith)
And it was it was so weird because I came here [Western New York Independent Living] probably for about a year before receiving, actually receiving, services. And then one day the director asked me, she was telling me about a position [to] engage [with] individuals who were chronically homeless, mental health, who they wanted to engage to bring in for services and asked me if I was interested in a job just talking about my life. I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute. A job? Like you're going to give me money? And she was like, yeah, we're going to pay you to go out into the community and engage individuals who are chronically homeless, probably mental health. There was some substance use. And just tell them about our services.  [continued…]

00:20:11          (Kevin Smith)
So, I still didn’t believe it. So, I said sure. And I didn’t have a clue what I was going to do, and they [Western New York Independent Living] hired me. And I remember and I don’t even know how I started or I even knew. She may have told me, but I don’t remember. I started going to like literally every soup kitchen in the city of Buffalo, and I would just sit down and have a meal with folks, and we would just have conversations over food. And, you know, I mean, I would tell them about my life and we would just start, it would start, you know, I mean, just general conversation. And for some reason, people talked to me and we was pretty good at it. We was pretty good at linking individuals who were chronically homeless and getting them to come into the agency to work on a lot of the things that they needed to do in their own lives. So that was the beginning for me, that first job.                

00:21:13          Michael Rembis
Q:  You are right. That is a huge turning point in your life. And it's such important services. I mean, it's important work. KS: Yeah, but they literally said, we're going to pay you to talk about all the stuff that caused you so much shame for so many years. Q: Was it scary at first. Did you not want to talk about your life? KS: It wasn't scary because I had been coming here [Western New York Independent Living] for, like I said, almost a year. And I was just seeing that so many people, I'm like, man, you got people here with you. You know what I mean? A lot of the same. Well, not same, but stories like mine and I mean some even worse. And here they are productive citizens and dealing with their mental health and still able to help other people. I wanted that, I saw that, and not only did I want it, I felt it was my duty to at least offer that to other people because somebody gave it to me. And at that point in my life, everybody who gave me something wanted something. So, it was like, man. So, I wanted to be a part of that, man. It just. And I was just drawn to it.                

00:22:25          Michael Rembis
That's great. It makes a lot of sense. Have you ever thought about why mental health never came up or why people didn't want to talk about it?                

00:22:50          Kevin Smith
I have thought about it, I can only talk about my own personal experiences. I really believe for my family, I think it was the lack of education because, I mean, even in school, I went through school. I mean, I would go to school, like I said, I would stay up all night mind racing. I get to school. I couldn't even focus. I'm tired, but nobody ever. There was never anybody who said anything or thought to think that something was going on, and I think my young parents just didn't have the information necessary to get me on the road to feeling better as a young kid that early in my life, but at the same time, because I'm a man of faith, I believe everything happens for a reason. And I think had things happened any differently, I probably wouldn't be where I am today. So, I'll be the first to admit that even though I felt like I took a lot of unnecessary lumps, it gave me character.               

00:24:16          Michael Rembis
Q:  So, in a way, you kind of found your calling in a way? KS: I kind of yeah, I kind of found my calling.  Q: After a few lumps. KS: Exactly. Oh, yeah. I took a lot more than a few lumps.                                

00:24:27          Michael Rembis
Well, we can come back to the peer group. But I'm wondering, you mentioned the church and I'm just wondering, are there other communities of care that you rely on? I mean, you even said that you're closer to your father now, it sounds like.                

00:24:41          Kevin Smith
Me and my dad is like church, maybe. We're really, really close. And, you know, communities of care are important. And not just mental health. Even though it's a really big part of mental health. Just healthy living and. Period. Period. And because you [have] that support system, you know, that support system, way too often we have individuals that come through our doors needing assistance. And even though there your main goal may be, I don't know, housing or finding a counselor. As you talk to people and support them, it's clear that they don't have any roots, natural roots in their communities. And that has been and still is one of the biggest things that I attribute to maintaining my wellness.  [continued…]

00:25:40          (Kevin Smith)
And when I say that today I'm a part of a men's fishing ministry. I mean we meet the first Tuesday of every month. We plan our fishing trips all summer. We don't fish in the winter, but we meet to talk about when we're going to fish next spring. So, we meet and we plan our fishing trips. We do all local for most of the summer. And we plan one away trip between 3 and 7 days. That is a part of my community of care.  [continued…]

00:26:15          (Kevin Smith)
Fishing is one of my wellness tools. I had no idea it would be one of my wellness tools, because even when, like I said, my dad struggled with addiction, I can remember him always taking me fishing. He would take me down to the lake and we would cast a line, and that stuck with me. You know, I didn't think something that, you know, me and him did because there wasn't a whole lot of things that we did together because of his addiction. But that was one of the things that he introduced me to that later on in my life turned out to be so valuable, important in my life.  [continued…]

00:26:51          (Kevin Smith)
Like, it's I love the water, it's just it's my happy space. I get with my group of guys and we go down to the lake and fish and we'll go to Pennsylvania or Jamestown or Rochester or Thousand Islands. And we just enjoy. And it just puts me in a really good, peaceful place and allows me to get out of my own head when I might not be in the best space. Yeah, so it's everything in the community, even though I've been a part of this fishing ministry for about seven years now, and the guys are trying to get me to come to church, I've been once, so they're still, I'm still a work in progress.  [continued…]

00:27:34          (Kevin Smith)
But yeah, we fish and I bought my first boat, which was a 1972 StarCraft aluminum. I spent the summer renovating it. Just being around people who, were… These are all guys who were, who are still, to this day, positive role models in their community. I mean, not only are they great fishing partners, these are guys that are contributing to their community and helping people who are some of the most vulnerable people in the communities. [continued…]

00:28:26          (Kevin Smith)
I have a real strong relationship with a lot of my family members now, whereas before a lot of them didn't want to be around me, you know, I mean, not only did they not understand my mental health, I made things worse when I started self-medicating. And, I mean, they really didn't understand then. So, it was like I made matters worse, but I was able to fix those relationships. And now I have strong relationships with my family. And like I said earlier, I have a really, really large family. And, you know, I mean, my children.                

00:29:02          Michael Rembis
Q:  And everybody is here in Buffalo? KS: Yeah. Well, on my dad's side everybody is in California except one of his brothers. But on my mom's side… My mom had two brothers and four sisters, and all of them had five kids or better. So that is a big family. So just on my mom's side, man, I think I got like 31 first cousins or something like that. And now they're all adults because, you know, I mean, I'm in my 50s now and you know, they all have children. So, it's like it just got even larger. And it's just the people that's close to me. I value early relationships that I was able to hang on to even though my life was in turmoil. There were years that in my early childhood, because of what was going on in my household, me and my brothers kind of split up amongst the family, and I stayed with my grandmother. [continued…]

00:30:05          (Kevin Smith) [
Still to this day, I consider her [Kevin’s grandmother] one of the hardest working individuals I've ever met in my life. I can remember living with her downtown and she would make me get up early in the morning. I was, like, 15, 16, and she would make me get up early in the morning, and she would make me catch the farm bus, more like a van. It wasn't a bus. And I would go up to William and Walnut, I think it was at that time, and she didn't even realize it at that time, even though I hated it, being out there and picking tomatoes or whatever it was I was picking for the day and it allowed me to relax my mind.  [continued…]

00:30:48       (Kevin Smith)
And I never had that conversation with her [about the farm work], of course, but I hated it. But I look back at that stuff now, and it taught me the value of hard work. Yeah, there was nothing like being out in the farm in the field in 85 degrees and down on my hands and knees picking cherry tomatoes or cucumbers and 5 or 6 hours and come home with 40 bucks but as a teenager, you put in a; matter of fact, it was longer than that. Yeah. You put in a full day's work and you come up out of there, depending on how good you were at it. You come up anywhere from, I don't know, 25 to 45 bucks: I don't think I ever made $50.                

00:31:27          Michael Rembis
Oh my God.                

00:31:27          Kevin Smith
KS:  But it [working as a day laborer on the farm] taught me the value of hard work. So, I have all of this stuff as reference, even though it was so much stuff that I felt like went wrong in my life. And, I don't know, it's just I can laugh at it now because I remember the first time she sent me and she packed up my lunch real nice, and I left it on the van, and I was the only kid. I was the only kid. And it was mostly the neighborhood winos who caught that van bus. Some guy would show up with a van early in the morning, and he would charge us 10 or $15. Q:  So, you had to pay the guy who was taking you out there. I'm pretty sure he was getting paid twice. Now that I think about it. I'm pretty sure that. KS: Yeah, I'm pretty sure now that I think back to [it,] the guy that took us there was getting paid twice. The farmer was paying him, and then he was charging us, too.                

00:32:21          Michael Rembis
Q:  Yeah, but probably you earned 40 bucks. KS: Exactly. So, I'm out there in the sun, and this was the very first time out there in the sun. And lunch time they call our break. I go back to the van and somebody stole my lunch. Q:  Oh. Somebody stole. Oh, wow. But, yeah, that's not a community of care. KS: Exactly. That's definitely … That was not one of my communities. But just that early… That experience. Getting that work experience. And just, you know, and even now, just being, doing the work that I'm doing. I mean, we work with so many other organizations. Like I talked about my fishing buddies.  [continued…]

00:33:05          (Kevin Smith)
There's other organizations within the community that we work with. And I mean, they're supportive, too, not just for me, but for so many other people in the community. So, I think it's important to develop those anchors and not just the community that you live in, but, you know, the community at large as well. So, yeah, a lot of people has played a really important role in my life when I think of communities of care.                

00:33:32          Michael Rembis
Q:  Well, it sounds like a really wide, wide, a bunch of different communities. KS: Yeah, yeah. Q:  You have to build them and nurture them. KS: That's right. You build them and nurture them like anything else that you want to grow. Q:  Exactly.                

00:33:44          Michael Rembis
Do you think in either your role as a director or an employee or personally, do you think there have been things that have prevented you from doing what you want to do, or creating the sort of care networks that you want to create. Like, do you see any obstacles and barriers that have made it difficult or prevented you from doing that?                

00:34:09          Kevin Smith
I think from my role now, a lot of the barriers that we face and we have a decent sized staff, but no matter how much you do, there's always more that can be done. And we're living in a time where people's needs are just constantly amplifying. They're just, there's just more and more and more whether it's, you know, housing or whatever it is. I mean, we live in a time where information is at your fingertips, and that's a good thing.  [continued…]

00:34:57          (Kevin Smith)
But the downside is, when you think about where we are as a country, just politics. Politics creates stress for people. And it's affecting everybody. So even though we have a fairly decent sized staff, I think we could always use more because enough people come through our doors where it's hard to give everybody all of the attention that they need.  [continued…]

00:35:27          (Kevin Smith)
I first walked through these doors 20 plus years ago, even though we provided a lot of services to folks, there didn't seem to be so many things affecting people. And maybe I'm being naive, but it just didn't seem like there was just so much going on that people had so much stuff wrong. So, there's a limited amount of resources, but the need for people needing those resources and to help, whether it's mental health or substance use, it seems to be infinite. And sometimes as a society, it feels like we're going backwards instead of truly trying to meet the needs of everybody to have a healthy, inclusive society. …That's probably the biggest barrier.                

00:36:24          Michael Rembis
Yeah. No, I agree, I agree with that… totally. I think it was very well put, very well said. Do you think, does it feel like to you from your perspective that, is it a constant struggle? Is it, do you rely mostly on state or federal grants, and is it a constant struggle to keep the program funded, or do you feel like it's gotten more generous over the last 20 years, or less generous.                

00:36:55          Kevin Smith
I think we've been fortunate enough to live in a county, and I mean a state, where the funding has been pretty constant. Of course I wish that it kept pace with inflation or just living as a whole. So, the funding has been pretty steady to provide most of the services. But then we're constantly searching for more grants, more funding. And what happens more often than not is we have these, I don't know, these stopgap or these quick fix solutions that, don't get me wrong, they work and they do good work.                 

00:37:48          Michael Rembis
But?                

00:37:49          Kevin Smith
They're done after two years, or they're done after three years or five years or whatever. It's not constant. So, you're always looking for that next thing to continue providing the services and helping people because the need isn't going anywhere. It's growing. So, you're always scrambling to find the resources to meet those needs.                

00:38:08          Michael Rembis
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And like you said, it seems like people's needs are increasing or, you know, multiplying in different ways now. Even when we think about the last 20 or 25 years, it seems. It's tough work. If there's anything you could change about, I guess we can keep in the context of your current role or, you know, your experience over the last 20 years or so. If there's something you could change within the system, not necessarily in your own life, unless you want to talk about that as well. If people are listening to this in the future, and is there something you want to pass on or something you really feel you would really like to see improved?                

00:39:19          Kevin Smith
I mean, if I just wanted to see something improved, I think for the most part, we have a lot of service providers and programs that are trying to meet the needs of people who need those services. Sometimes I think communication isn't enough. I wish that there was a way that we can communicate more with each other instead of a lot of these siloed approaches, but at the same time respect people's individual liberty. And their rights. [continued…]

00:40:05          (Kevin Smith)
Because when I think about my own personal experience in going from one place to another and looking for services. A lot of times, you find yourself talking about your life or explaining to somebody what brought you where you are today over and over and over and over. And that was one of the things that kind of turned me away early on. And I think a lot of people face that same kind of, uh, I don't know if anxiety is the right word, but displeasure with engaging the system.  [continued…]

00:40:44          (Kevin Smith)
You might go to 2 or 3 different places, which you can't fault people because people come to us, or I would imagine a lot of these other places, they come to you for help. They need help yesterday. Right. So, you can't fault them when they go to 2 or 3 places. And, you hope that whatever it is that they're seeking to put them in a better place, somebody's going to come through fast. [continued…]

00:41:06          (Kevin Smith)
So sometimes I think we just got to figure out a better way to communicate and not just communicate amongst the providers that are providing these services, but for the state, the county or whoever, to really, really put people's wellness and mental health and substance use or whatever it is that's causing them angst in their life or elevated levels of mental health, not just talking about it, but put the necessary funding behind it. So people who choose this life of helping can support themselves and their families, because I think a lot of people choose to do something different because it's hard to support and sustain your own family, because you definitely not going to get rich in this profession, but you need people who are empathetic, you need people who are caring. And a lot of times it's choices. I mean, people make choices based on their own personal experiences and what they need to be doing for their own lives. So, communication and funding, those are two of the things that I would change if I had a magic wand. And could just change it.                

00:42:29          Michael Rembis
Q:  If you had the resources. Yeah, I hear that quite a bit. Well that's good. We need dreamers. I hear that quite a bit in the community though, these siloed agencies, that there's not a lot of communication between them and not a lot of coordination. KS: Yeah. Yeah. Q:  Trying to find a way to get past that is really important. KS: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, the only person that's going to benefit is the person who needs the service. Q:  Yeah. And then of course funding. I agree completely. Sometimes I think we have our values a little askew in the ways that we fund stuff.

00:43:12          Kevin Smith
So, this is another thing that I would like to add, because I'm thinking back to my own personal journey before I had so many amazing community cares in my life that benefited me along my journey and definitely support me in where I am today. I would be dishonest if I didn't say there were times in my life where the hopelessness felt so overbearing that I just didn't know what was going to happen next. But somehow, and you can call it whatever, I don't know, divine intervention or whatever you want to call it, call it whatever you like, because I'm pretty sure everybody have that something in their life and it means something different or called something different.  [continued…]

00:44:01          (Kevin Smith)
But even in my lowest, somehow I managed to keep it simple. And every day I woke up and my mind was another opportunity for something to change in my life, even though I didn't know what it was or if it was going to even happen. And I think back to all the people who were instrumental in my life and was planting these seeds when I was still caught up in my story and they didn't hold a whole lot of weight then. But everybody I encountered, I was able to take something from each one of them as I look back, because a lot of those things still stick with me today. [continued…]

00:44:53          (Kevin Smith)
And as a director of an agency that worked with individuals with mental health and substance use disorders, I try to convey to my staff, because a lot of times you want instant gratification. Even if you're the person dealing with it or you're the person trying to walk with somebody as they go through or go walk along their road to recovery. Keep the seeds, I guess. [continued…]

00:45:30          (Kevin Smith)
We take so many seeds from so many different places, I guess is what I'm trying to say. It might not grow tomorrow, it might not grow next week. But it can grow and it does grow. So, if there's anything in your life that you can hold on to, or you can find just a pinprick of light, hold on to that. Because that pinprick may be the seed that grows to take you over the top to put you in a new place next year or five years or ten years. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is you have to find a way to keep hope.                

00:46:10          Michael Rembis
Yeah.                

00:46:11          Kevin Smith
And I tell my staff, listen, people come to us and they need help. So that's how you always have to remember that first. Take you out of the scenario. Keep planting seeds. You, everybody that come in, you keep planting seeds, you keep planting seeds. And you have to be okay with the fact that you might not be there to see them grow, because all of the people that helped me along my life, some of them I don't have any contact with anymore. But yet they gave me something that stuck with me that allowed me to be here. So, it's like Johnny Appleseed, keep planting those seeds even though you might not be there to watch them grow.                

00:46:57          Michael Rembis
Yeah, and that's okay. Well, that's a beautiful message to end on.

00:47:07          Kevin Smith
I hope that wasn't out of place. But I just felt like, I don't know, I've had to say that.                

00:47:11          Michael Rembis
No, no, I think it was really well done. So I'll say again: This is Michael Rembis and Kevin Smith, and we had a conversation at the Western New York Independent Living, 3108 Main Street. Thursday, November 14th, 2024. Thanks, Thank you.